Lions Of Liberty Roundtable II: Vote Or Die
{Editor’s Note: This is the second edition of the Lions Of Liberty Roundtable, a feature where we will pick a relevant topic of the day and hash it out via email for all the world to see. If you have any suggestions for future roundtable topics, just drop me an email.} Domenic:As the horse race draws nearer I thought it might be a good time to hold our second roundtable discussion on the topic that no one can get enough of, the Presidential Election. The inevitable question, "So who are you voting for?" seems to keep popping up as Election Day approaches. My "political" blips on facebook, or the content of 80% of my bar conversations has a lot of people under the impression that I am "sooooo into politics." Nothing could be further from the truth. I LOATHE politics! The only thing that trumps my dislike for such nonsense is its passionate following by people I otherwise consider intelligent. I find it astonishing that two large special interests groups that have taken absolute control of our federal, state and local governments can garner such passion from rational individuals. So naturally I am a bit annoyed when people ask me if I am going to vote for Obama or Romney. For one it makes me think they might not be reading my blog. But more importantly, I am frustrated that voters still think there is real choice between two ready made figureheads from the controlling duarchy of the Republican and Democratic organizations. People tend to struggle understanding what I mean when I reply that I will not perpetuate the charade of choice by voting for party puppets. They, much like I used to, have bought into the idea that there are two visions, the Republican or Democratic ones. It’s like a law to most people, there’s up and down, hot and cold, and red and blue.This is how we are introduced to politics. There's a conservative and liberal side. Never mind what those words mean and pay no attentions to the facts, the Reds are conservative and the Blues are liberal. The absurdity of this is clear, but for some reason it has not changed anything. People still think there are only two organizations that represent the entire philosophical spectrum of governance. So to give the people what they want, I thought it might be a fun exercise to force the issue in a hypothetical conversation where we, like most, believe these are the real and only choices for America's CEO. To be clear, we, at least I, will not actually be voting for either of these two jokers. Most likely I will either write in Ron Paul's name, vote for Gary Johnson, or simply abstain from the Presidential election process. But as so many have informed me, that's just not fun conversation. It pains me greatly to even pretend to play the game I’ve been passionately been calling shenanigans on for years, but what the hell. So given the new constraints, and before I make myself sound like a hypocrite, let’s hear who you gents would vote for? Marc:Well thankfully this scenario is purely hypothetical, as it would go against every moral fiber of my being to actually vote for one of these two crony-capitalist-fascistic-socialist ne'er-do-wells. As we've discussed at length in the past, there is virtually no substantive difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney policy wise. Sure, they might have slight ways in which they tinker around the edges differently, but tinkering around with 1% of the budget isn't going to do a load of anything with hundreds of trillions of unfunded future obligations and a Federal Reserve with the power to print money at will. So far, the biggest difference between Obama and Romney on the economy and budget seems to be that Romney wants to cut Big Bird, and Obama doesn't. Some choice!But ok, I'll play along. After all, just because we don' t endorse either candidate doesn't mean that we don't recognize the reality that, despite the fact there are several other options on the ballot, due to the way the system is set up there is virtually no chance that anyone other than Flip Mitt or Flopbama will be POTUS for the next four years. Murray Rothbard, despite not typically voting for mainstream candidates if at all, always "rooted" for one side of the either. According to Rothbard:"...whom should we cheer for on Election Day? Whom should we hope wins the election? Voting is a matter of personal conscience, and can be for one of many minor candidates or for no one at all; rooting on who should win is a different problem, because regardless of who you or I vote for, or whether we vote at all, one of the two major candidates is sure to win in November. Whom should we hope wins, or are all the considerations so equally weighted that we should be indifferent? Regardless of our hopes, no minor candidate will win, and the office of President, alas, will not be declared vacant. ...If only they would just declare the office of the Presidency vacant! But alas, we don't live in that Utopian President-less world just yet, so we have to face reality. So for the purposes of this exercise, I will admit something that may have seemed unimaginable to me even a year ago: I am "rooting" for the current Commander-In-Chief, the devil I know, President Obama.This will probably shock most people that know me, as I've spent the better part of the last 6 years touting Ron Paul and the need to slash government spending. Surely that must make me fall to the Republican side! And it probably should, in theory. But Mitt Romney is quite possibly the worst Republican in the history of Republicans and that's saying a lot. We saw a preview of what a Romney Presidency would be like at the RNC - complete disregard for rules, totalitarian tactics, and even kidnappings! But my preference for Obama is based on far more than a personal grudge over the goings on at the RNC.For as terrible - and I do mean absolutely , unequivocally, terrible - the President has been on everything from fiscal policy to foreign policy and everything in between, Romney still scares me more. For all of his faults, at the very least Obama has resisted calls from both the Israeli President as well as every neocon talking head you wish you'd never heard of, to engage in a direct military conflict with Iran. I have little confidence that Mitt Romney - whose group of foreign policy advisers features many of the same neocons calling for war with Iran - will offer such resistance. And even if it's true that Romney will cut spending in some areas, nothing will bankrupt this country faster than a war with Iran.A lame duck Obama Administration may very well go to war with Iran someday. But if there's a 99% chance Mitt Romney pulls the trigger and an 90% chance Obama does, that's enough for me to "root" for Obama. That, and four more years of Obama "Choom Gang" Jokes. Dom:Excellent point about the devil you know. So I posed this question 3 days ago and have lost sleep trying to decide what exactly my decision would be if I threw out every principle I held and went with "the lesser of two evils." Monday night's final debate did nothing but further aggravate the situation for me. When the conversation turns to whose sanctions are more crippling, so does my stomach. John:Vote or Die YoThe only way to achieve the proper mindset to complete this exercise is to imagine myself being placed into a scenario where I absolutely have to choose between the red and blue candidate or face death. For the purpose of this discussion, let's imagine that P Diddy shows up to my house with an MTV camera crew, intending to make their slogan, "Vote or Die", into a reality show. The premise of the show is simple; P Diddy and his fellow MTV sociopaths kidnap me on Tuesday November 6th and drive to my polling location. The rules are straight forward, either you vote for one of the mainstream candidates (MTV's brilliant audience buys the lie that a third party vote is a wasted vote) or P Diddy shoots you in the face.If P Diddy is going to force me to vote for one of these asshats, then how can I not explain the logic behind my vote? Doesn’t it make sense to attempt to reconcile my actions with my values? As Dom and Marc have mentioned above, these are exceptionally flawed candidates and they share many of the same faults. The duopoly’s candidates do not have a plan to balance the budget in the near future. Both of their budget plans rely on smoke and mirrors that utilize deceiving accounting tricks. Neither the incumbent nor the challenger offer differing views on foreign policy. Both men believe the United States has a duty to bomb sovereign nations and assist regimes that cooperate, or accept bribes, to gain power. Additionally, Obama and Romney do not understand or care about the role that sound money plays in creating prosperity in a free society. No matter who wins, the size of scope of government will grow, taxes will go up, and our quality of living will go down.When I vote in an election it is because the candidate displays the ability to communicate the message of peace, prosperity, and liberty. With access to a national platform it is likely that they will have the opportunity to communicate the message of liberty to a large audience. Candidates do not receive my vote because I believe they will magically convince all of the politicians in D.C. to imitate them.So in this instance, because neither candidate is going to promote the libertarian philosophy, it would make sense to vote for the candidate that would do the least amount of damage to the credibility of the message of liberty. When viewing the election through this lens my vote would be cast for President Obama. Barack Obama openly denounces many of the core pillars that comprise the libertarian philosophy. On the other hand, Mitt Romney uses libertarian rhetoric in his message. The country is heading into dangerous territory no matter who wins. The global media will blame capitalism, liberty, and freedom for the demise of the United States if Romney is President during the collapse. Surprising, we haven’t had a President that endorsed policies to enhance any of the three in many lifetimes. The media would be incorrect in the assignment of blame, but that hasn't stopped them in the past.So when P Diddy puts that gun to my head, I’m going to tell him I’m voting for Barack Obama. The MTV audience will love me for it, but the future of the libertarian movement will be the true beneficiary. Plus, with another Republican primary in 4 short years, perhaps Judge Andrew Napolitano or Tom Woods could be convinced to attempt to fill Dr. Paul's shoes. Dom:Thanks for giving a reason to the exercise John. I was struggling to find a scenario that would prompt any of us principled gentlemen to actually go along with the illusion of choice and the South Park P Diddy one will do just fine! I’d recommend that entire episode to anyone who still thinks that voting is some heroic act of freedom.Well I have dilly-dallied around my answer long enough so I guess I should get down to it. I think at first glance, most would take me for a Red based on my passionate belief in laissez faire economics and limited government as these are ideals to which the Republican Party at least gives lip service. Others might take me for a Blue due to my true passion for the empty words that Democrats abuse like peace and personal liberty. As you all know, however, these ideas are repeatedly pissed on by both parties, regardless of the charismatic puppet representing them. So which puppet will it be?When sifting through the BS, I think what I've learned about Mitt Romney is that he is an opportunist with not a principle in his bones other than the desire to win. I think Mitt is smart enough to realize that as long as he agrees with everything, he has a shot. Mitt's big sales pitch is his secret knowledge and simple 5 point plan that will "get the economy going again!" As a student of the free market, I don't believe that a President can do very much to effect things like unemployment in the long term. Besides the absurdity of the claim, "creating jobs" is not a President's role. He can print and borrow a few months of good labor statistics, but he cannot change the true economic engine by meddling. Even Mitt alludes to this before he tells you that he will create 12 million jobs. His claim as the economic expert just doesn't do if for me. Just because someone spends some time in business, doesn't make him qualified in economic science. I know a lot of good mechanics, but they don't design my cars.What I've learned about Obama is that he is a cool guy and his chic persona allows him to punch someone's mom and still get their vote. Obama's list of offenses and broken promises are long and Marc pointed out the big ones above. He spends a lot of time, even in this election cycle, trying to distance himself from the Bush Administration and Republicans in general. With four years of evidence to review, we can all agree that the difference is minute. Sadly, Obama is again emerging as the peace candidate. This is the most troubling aspect of trying to pick one of these clowns. Despite Obama's poor humanitarian record and his continuation of the now deeply entrenched foreign policy of nation building he STILL comes out smelling like the peace option.So based on Mitt's crazy talk suggesting war with an under-armed and undermanned country and P Diddy's gat in my face, I'd have to go with Obama as well. Marc's point about the devil you know, is all I have to go on. Mitt's proposed increases in military spending and his secret cuts that no one can quantify just sound like a worse option. When voting for someone is this painful, I can’t help but think our previous Roundtable conclusion to stay away from the polls was the correct one. Brian:As I often am in our group, I shall be the contrarian voice, as I view Obama as the absolute least electable candidate available. While I appreciate the arguments put forth in favor of Obama, or "the devil we know," I can't possibly cast a vote for the man vs. Romney. I can't fully express my contempt for Obama - the President who brought us the NDAA and who is still actively campaigning to keep it alive and with the inclusion of its policy on indefinite detention of American citizens. He is also the President behind SOPA and PIPA. He has brought us the unconstitutional Obamacare, or the The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), which was forced down the throats of a country that didn't want it. He has expanded the nanny-state to unprecedented levels, to the tune of trillions of dollars.Obama is also a man who has zero understanding of the economy in any way. One who believes that the government is god and we are all merely its disciples. He believes that above all, that he knows what is best for each and every one of us and we will be forced to comply.His foreign policy is a disgrace - he is a warmongering fool who has reneged on every one of his promises. The wars have escalated, expanded to new countries or continued under the guise of mercenary forces. Guantanamo Bay remains open, but now the denial of a right to trial has expanded to our own shores. The hilarity and irony of his Nobel Peace Prize will be remembered by historians for the rest of time. And yes, I acknowledge that Mitt Romney will only be worse in regards to US militarism and aggression against Iran, however I look at everything that Obama has done and I already see the wheels in motion for war with Iran for either candidate.My hope, and the reason that should I have that hypothetical gun to my head and would cast my ballot for Romney, is that we would see gains financially and in the free market under Romney that we would not see under Obama. I would also hope that we would see more social liberties restored, with the repeal of Obamacare, and a retraction of the nanny state. I don't understand how my fellow writers can argue that for the cause of libertarianism, Obama can be the better option considering his track history. I don't think American liberty and the basic rights we have been promised since the nation's inception have ever been threatened more under any sitting president than it has been under Obama. Dom:Well that was painful, but hopefully highlights a major theme that we all passionately preach: the two party duopoly is a sham and your participation in voting for their handpicked candidates is no great responsibility. Obama sounds a bit softer on foreign policy, but that’s like saying quartz would make a better pillow than diamond. Obama deserves no credit as a peace candidate, he has extended the Bush foreign and domestic policy-policies that Democrats used to be against. Romney gives lip service to free market principles, only to contradict himself in the next sentence with some government action he promises. Besides being mildly entertaining and reminding us that the Pres is kind of cool and funny, the debates did nothing but highlight the lack of contrast between the two. To watch the media try desperately to make their empty words seem like “starkly different visions” is absurd and to see the voting public eat it up is just devastating. Wake up people. If the lesser of two evils is what you are going for, then fine, as much as I disagree with validating that stance, I can understand it. But to passionately back either candidate as the answer to anything is just ignorance. Or maybe I'm wrong. Please try to convince me.I hope you've all enjoyed the second edition of the Lions of Liberty Roundtable! It was a difficult one for us, but hopefully we've poked some holes in your passionate love for the two party system. We’d love to hear feedback on Facebook ,Twitter or Google +, or in the comments section below.Receive access to ALL of our EXCLUSIVE bonus audio content – including “Conspiracy Corner”, “Degenerate Gamblers” and the “League of Liberty Podcast” by joining the Lions of Liberty Pride and supporting us on Patreon![amazon_image id="1609804783" link="true" target="_blank" size="medium" ]Billionaires & Ballot Bandits: How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps[/amazon_image] [amazon_image id="0452285674" link="true" target="_blank" size="medium" ]The Best Democracy Money Can Buy[/amazon_image] [amazon_image id="0765808684" link="true" target="_blank" size="medium" ]Democracy: The God that Failed: The Economics and Politics of Monarchy, Democracy, and Natural Order[/amazon_image] [amazon_image id="B008DI03T4" link="true" target="_blank" size="medium" ]South Park - Complete Seasons 1-15 DVD Sets (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15)[/amazon_image]
